smg01 | more fandom thoughts

more fandom thoughts

I started this post in a conversation in

cindywrites journal and then decided it was drifting too far and to put in my own lj.

We were discussing Kristen Bell's comments in interviews about VM and her watching/not watching the show and expressing opinions that run counter to a lot of fan opinion.

Over the past few years I've just really started to have some mixed feelings about fandoms, which I think is part of what was driving my defense of KB in my friend's journal. Fans are so invested and sometimes seem to take comments from those involved so personally. It troubles me sometimes. On a personal level it can interfere with my own enjoyment of a show. (I've commented before that I swore that I would never get involved in fandoms again because it's such a double-edged sword. Of course I keep dipping my toe in anyway.)

So, yes, fandom. It's been my observation in the past couple of years or more that fandom itself is something of a double-edged sword for the shows that they support. They're obsessed, they love fiercely, they bring energy and buzz and even sometimes keep a show alive. Every show needs and wants a rabid audience. But fans can have a crippling effect too. And I'm not sure that that self awareness is present as much as it should be. I love Veronica Mars but I kinda stay away from the fans--except for the people I already know--because they kinda scare me. And I worry sometimes that they have the opposite affect from the one that is intended when it comes to bringing new fans to the show.

It's a fine line between enthusiasm and off-putting obnoxiousness. To draw an example from a different setting on the television dial: I watched Farscape occassionally when it was on the air. Didn't love it, didn't hate it. I tended not to make time to watch it, but maybe would have gotten into it eventually. My feelings were basically neutral. However. Over the years, there's a segment of the fandom that has struck me as so obnoxious, smug, so "this is the best show ever, ever, ever, and all else is crap, and if you don't like this you're obviously stupid, you have no taste, and how can you like "X" and not like this, there's something wrong with you." (I'm paraphrasing a little. Maybe a lot. But the attitude is there.) It's a huge turn off for me. I don't think I will ever watch Farscape now. Petty of me? Yes. Am I missing out on something really good? Probably. But it has these associations for me now. And I can't get past them. Sorry to all of my Farscape friends out there. Nothing personal against any of you. I love you all and I'm not thinking of you in the context of this paragraph.

The above has been an eye-opening personal revelation for me. I don't proselytize very aggressively for "my" shows anymore. I don't want to be the one that turns a potential fan into an annoyed "get away from me with this show"-type of person. I watch a little bit of what goes on in the VM universe and I worry that as hard as they're working to bring in new fans, they may be sending a lot of people running in the other direction too. It's why as a fan of various shows, I have to keep things a little lighter in my public fannishness. I obsess from my living room. (Boy, do I ever.) But "out there," I have to keep a little bit of emotional distance, or the fun goes away and the angst and the stress replaces it. I have enough of that in my real life. I finally realized that I don't need it in my fan life too.

Standard disclaimer: All of the above is not to say people who "do" fandom differently are wrong or that anyone has to agree with me. It's just how my own thinking and interactions have evolved over the years.

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I am so the "un-fan" fan of things. The fact that I ever found the Bronze was an utter fluke. Fandom scares the hell outta me, and although I will be eternally greatful that I met a lot of wonderful people via a fan community, I'll never be a part of another again. There are a lot of things I'm a fan of, but I don't go to the boards at TWOP, I don't go to other fansites - the only time I'll discuss TV shows, etc., is either here on LJ or in person with my buds.

And you should watch Farscape, if only for the hotness factor. You're really only punishing yourself. *g*

I'll never be sorry that I found the Bronze. It was a life changing thing in many ways and gave me friends that I would never have otherwise found. But I also learned that that level of fan involvement can actually diminish my enjoyment as much as it enhances it.

Maybe someday for Farscape. But at least for now, punishing myself or not, I'm not in an emotional place to gain any enjoyment from it. Yeah, all that stuff in my original post about taking fans taking things personally? Clearly I'm not immune to it. *g*

Wow. Not only do I totally agree with you, but if your tone had been a little angrier, I might have mistaken you for

aboveaveragejoe, right down to the Farscape "this is the best show ever, ever, ever, and all else is crap, and if you don't like this you're obviously stupid, you have no taste, and how can you like "X" and not like this, there's something wrong with you..." experience (I was sitting right beside him when that happened).

I had a friend tell me recently that she hated a certain character on a show, but upon a little further discussion, it became apparent that what she really hated was the way the fanbase/fanfic authors reacted to/depicted the character (and vilified other characters in his defense).

It was around that time - as a community rather than a state of enjoyment of cultural produce) - I began really thinking about fandom and my place in/out of it. And I realised that fandom just doesn't work for me. The Bronze did because the discussion I participated in were the sort of lit-crit level anaylses of characters and story and all the off-topic social/personal stuff.

But most fandom is extremely off-putting to me, because it engages with the source in a way that can actual REDUCE my enjoyment of it, and amongst the cool people (ie everyone I have friended on LJ and in RL), it tends to attract a LOT of extreme, obsessive, not-always-pleasant personalities.

I had a friend tell me recently that she hated a certain character on a show, but upon a little further discussion, it became apparent that what she really hated was the way the fanbase/fanfic authors reacted to/depicted the character (and vilified other characters in his defense).

It's one of the things that I've recognized in myself--that other fans' reactions to characters color my own. The more others go nuts over someone that I don't really care about, the more I start to dislike the character. And vice-versa, the more others will hate on someone that I sort of like, the more defensive I'll get for that character. It's my need to defend the underdog. And then I have to remind myself that these aren't real people and they don't need me to defend their honor. But it all gets confused into the personalities of the fans and the characters and even the actors and then it starts getting a little too personal.

*whew* Fortunately I'm better able to step away and dissociate than I used to be. Also, I've learned to go no further than the shallow edges of fandom. Because as you say, there are a lot of extreme personalities swimming around in there.

I've since chalked the whole Farscape fan incident to the intellectual insecurity that walks hand-in-hand with the social retardation common to so many sf/fantasy/comic book fans. They need to constantly emphasise their own intelligence, because they consider it to be their strongest personality trait. Unfortunately it tends to manifest itself as a sense of unearned superiority, essentially telling other people that they're dumb. Which just leads to further social alienation. They need to feel smarter than everyone else, because it's all they've got going for them.

There may be something to that. There are a lot socially underdeveloped people out there.

Another element that it seems like I see often in fandoms: that being a seeming inability to like something or extol the virtues of something on it's own merits. Personally, I far prefer to read about "I love show X because so and so is a wonderful character and the writing moves me, or amuses me or etc., etc." to "Show X is so good, not like show Y which sucks and has much worse writing and acting, etc. etc." Of course it's perfectly acceptable to dislike any show and/or to compare any show unfavorably to your favorite one. I don't object to the idea in and of itself. Where it becomes tiresome for me is when a pattern emerges of praising one thing by constantly tearing down something else. Or when an unwritten rule seems to arise that if you like a particular thing, then you're not allowed to like or appreciate the perceived rival to it.

Or like when SGA people give the smack down to the SG-1 people and vice versa...

I have never been involved in any fandom, before or since, like I was in Buffy. I know lots of other folks are in to many new shows, and I like the shows too, but I just can't bring myself to invest the time and energy in them.

Buffy-fandom could be a lot of work! Bronzing, PBPs, VLB etc. And it was all so worth it, even the drama. But I haven't been touched by any shows like I was by Buffy. If Angel had been the original show I doubt I'd have been as involved.

So, I certainly see where you're coming from. Some people at work are just now discovering Firefly. I'm managing not to foam at the mouth about it to them - I don't want to turn them off of it. I think the show itself is capable of standing on its own. I feel the same way (moreso) about Buffy. I'll talk Buffy any time, to anyone, but if I don't know they're Bronzers I'm not going to bring it up.

But there has to be something there. Something more than just a pretty face. I mean, I tried to watch Tru Calling. What more could I really ask for? Eliza running (literally) around! But after the first couple of episodes it wasn't progressing and I stopped watching it. And they almost got me back with the Tru Calling Season One DVD. Because of the cover! (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002XVKMM.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1124913802_.jpg) My god, what a cover! I digress.

I didn't read the Kristen Bell interview (I'm trying to remain spoiler free on Season 2 - DVDs next week!) But I know that many stars have opinions different than fans about characters or stories. Crap, I think SMG actually thought B/S was a good idea!

But there has to be something there. Something more than just a pretty face.

Yeah, for me too. I have to have something. It may be flimsy sometimes, but there has to be something to enjoy beyond looking at a pretty face. Otherwise, just having a poster on the wall to look at is just as satisfying--if not more.

Let me preface this with the following: I doubt we know each other, and I mostly read your post because I was following the discussion about KB's interview/

cindywrites'letter on her lifejournal and was curious what you would further say about it. Having said that, I can only nod my head vigorously and agree. Your experience with fandom mirrors mine so much it's astonishing, right down to "this show is soo awesome and much better than any other" (for me it was Babylon 5, not Farscape, but the principle seems the same)and feelings for characters being influenced by how rabid their fanbase is (I'm still valiantly struggling to stay neutral about Logan Echolls). It's quite a relief to know that I'm not the only one having mixed feelings about being a fan in fandoms, and rather wanting to stay clear of them, even though I've met some awesome people there.

Hi and nice to meet you.

It really can be a double-edged sword. One the one hand I've gotten insights and perspectives to things that I wouldn't have thought of on my own. On the other, the strong feelings and the way they're sometimes expressed can take the fun out of something that's basically supposed to be fun. For me. The things that bother me may be stuff that's fun for others. If nothing else, I have a much better feel for what my limits are and what adds to my enjoyment and what detracts from it.

Buffy is the only fandom I've really been involved in. I am a Star Trek fan and was slightly involved with NextGen fandom. But that was before I had the internet and was very, very limited. I was also involved in the regional fandom for a band. It was pretty much limited to writing pen pals I met through the official fan club.

I do really enjoy a lot of things that have fandoms, I'm just not interested in belonging to them. Part of it is the rabid fans, but part of it is not wanting to ruin the uniquness of my Buffy fandom. It was really special and came into my life at a time when I had almost nothing else. I have fond memories of almost my entire Buffy fandom (all of it except crying during PBP committee meetings). Nothing could compare. I don't want it to.

Besides I'm getting a little old to put that much energy into something that's not going to pay me back!

I don't want to be a fan. I want to be a person who enjoys something. "Fan" has accumulated too many negative associations for me.

VM was way too overhyped for me. I bought the season 1 DVDs and couldn't understand why people were comparing it to Buffy in anyway other than a lead blonde who treats other people like crap. I felt the writing, which I thought was being touted as it's strength, was one of its weakest bits. And of course there were all the VM/LE shippers and I just don't get it since he never seemed like a good guy and the Duncan guy seemed borederline insane. Basically, I doubt I'll be spending money on Season 2.

As far as Farscape. I heard that "best show ever" once a month for two years. I absolutley could not get into that show (before the hype) and won't make time for it now.

A show like Buffy, SG-A or SG1 or Battlestar or even VM needs a strong rabid base because they will never be huge hits. What you hope for are law & Order/CSI fans. The huge number of Neilson box owning people who come out and watch the show when they get the chance. The ratings are huge, but you never hear about Lawrdies, just Trekkies. but if you aren't mainstream, you need the cult audience who will speak up louder than normal people and do letter writing campaigns to keep a show on the air or get the DVD set made or what have you.

"Fans" scare me. I like people who enjoy things much more. ;)

I'm here via a tip from

aurora_novarum

All I can is that I wholeheartedly agree. I have had similar experiences in the Farscape arena. I had wanted to watch it for a while, but I cannot tell you how much of a turn off it is to here a portion of the fandom go off like they do. I did start watching it and tried to view it on its own merits, and be critical and like it on my own terms, but there is still the attitude that prevails out there that suffocates me. I mean, I am very happy they love their show. I am. It's not a bad show. And I've enjoyed quite a few episodes. But I'm not some idiot because I don't believe it's the best show ever to grace this planet.

And I admit to being guilty of the same behavior for Star Wars at times, or X-Files, or SG-1. But my current fandom, SG-1, has taught me a lot. And I look back and think, omg, what was I thinking?! Eye opener.

I've already decided I'm not entering another fandom again. I've made a distinction between seeking out new friends who are open to discussion and people who are really hyperinvolved emotionally in a show.

Yep. I think I've learned a lot about myself as I've looked at this stuff and my own behavior. Looking back, I don't like some of the things I've seen in myself. For crying out loud, these are just television shows--I didn't need to take things quite so personally. Or so seriously. From now on I'm things like this for the fun, not the involvement where everything seems to take on life or death involvement. :)

That's very interesting; I was a pretty avid viewer of Farscape by the second season but managed to remain blissfully unaware of the overinvolved fans. I'd even come to think of Farscape fandom as being pretty trouble-free, especially in comparison to BtVS which was over-the-top shrieking crazy at times. Was most of the 'scaper craziness about over-enthusiasm, or did other things like 'shipping and irrational character hatred pop u? I know about the outrage over the cancellation, which was understandable even if it got excessive (and what are the odds? :) ).

I would say more the over-enthusiasm. I've seen it in other fandoms too, like for Firefly. I haven't seen any character hate or ship issues in Farscape, but then again I am not deep into the fandom. I am talking more about seeing and being told that Farscape is the smartest show ever made. That Farscape has a depth that no other show can reach. The Farscape is truly brilliant in terms of storytelling, acting, etc. I'm not saying that Farscape doesn't have good acting or good story. But when you are continously told it is the greatest thing in the world at the expense of everything else and that only the truly smart people watch the show? That is a big of a turn-off for me.

Which is sad because I don't think that represents the majority of its fans.

Honestly, I don't think any fandom is immune. I've only really offically been in one fandom--SG-1--and I've watched with wild interest other fandoms through friends and communities and such. And they all seem to have their own special wank or brand of crazy.

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